November Grumblings

Tribe off-season has begun but we haven't been able to shake the Cavs, Ohio State, and Browns talk as of yet. I guess Gilbert isn't all about winning at all cost since he won't sign Anderson----? (Barb at a certain poster on Tribe Forum). I guess Ohio State really was the beneficiary of a soft easy Big Ten Schedule or they were overlooking Illinois in preparation for Michigan, and the Browns lose yet another heartbreaker, this time to the dreaded Steelers (even this near-loss won't stand up as a moral victory, though it should.

This morning we had some really good dialogue on the Tribe Forum, even with the dreaded delay causing problems.

The early issues are Andy Marte, David Delluci, and possibly Coco Crisp. The discussion centers around an idea that the Tribe should bring Coco back to C-town, a place where he is confortable and may be energized and regain his old form. Could a simple change of scenery have that much of an impact on a player? If so, I guess Brandon Phillips would still be struggling in Cleveland and that the change of scenery served him equally as well as a change would serve Coco? Hard to blame a GM when a player doesn't fit a team for whatever reason (ownership, management, GM?, or fans as in the case with Coco.

One topic that came up was the fact that David Delluci may rebound and put up similar numbers to Coco so why give up a prospect for a guy coming off back to back sub-par years. If both guys played everyday I would guess the numbers would look eerily similar.

Below is the dialogue between myself and Dgen on the topic: both posts are included for clarity.


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603679.2.1.2. Clarity by MrNegative1, 11/11/07 9:55 ET Re: Crisp could by DGeneral, 11/11/07
Dgen, let me make it clear, I don't want Delluci in LF for the Tribe either....my intent was to say that based on 06/07 numbers that Coco may not be a significant upgrade over Delluci (at the cost of another player in a trade).
Peace

Here is Dgens position on Coco:


603679.2.1.2.1. My point with by DGeneral, 11/11/07 12:22 ET Re: Crisp could by DGeneral, 11/11/07
Crips is that he is in an environment that will not bring out the best in him. He's an African American in a city known to be brutal to players that don't perform. He probably does not feel the love from the Arrogant chowd fans who I consider a lot of pigs.
He comes back home to Cleveland and he relaxes and performs like he did when he felt the love in 04 and 05

The next topic was a little more spirited with discussion of Andy Marte...the newest enigma on the Tribe...first BP, then Jeremy Guthrie, then Jason Davis, and finally Fernando Cabrera. Marte and Barfield get a lot of talk, it has supplanted the Garko talk of last winter.

I posted my thoughts on Marte being our third baseman next year. If not, I posted that Baltimore and San Francisco are both looking for 3b and may end up choosing youth over experience (no Lowell, A-Rod, Cabrera, etc). Dgen was succinct in his response and Duckee countered Dgen with his response. The dialogue is included below. Again, if you are reading this post don't think that these are "told you so" posts. Just showing a good topic that was argued both ways by two of the posters that are often on the Tribe Forum. There is no intent other then to look back on these posts as the season draws nearer and again as it plays itself out.

603682. Marte by MrNegative1, 11/11/07 9:05 ET
Andy will be the opening day 3b, Blake will be dealt or be one of the OF (Franky in LF, Blake in RF). Andy will have to do two things...put together good at-bats and take care of the fielding aspect. He will be given to at least the AS break to perform with only a few days off (mostly against tough right handed pitchers).
Tribe fans don't see this coming and think it will be based on "spring training performance" but I do not.
An interesting side bar: two teams are looking for 3b, preferably young. They are the Giants and the Orioles. Baltimore may be willing to move Melvin Mora. SF is looking for a top level 3b like Cabrera and are dangling Lincecomb. More then likely they will shift from top-level desire to mid-level during organizational meetings. Blake may be an option or possibly Marte...I have no idea what would come back the other way.
Peace


603682.2. Disagree, after watching by DGeneral, 11/11/07 9:38 ET Re: Marte by MrNegative1, 11/11/07
multiple ST's from the Shapiro-Wedge braintrust, it is clear that it doesn't matter what a player does in ST, his fate is pre determined going into the session.
The Marte will never displace the beloved Casey Blake. Wedge and Shapiro are devoted to this player and view him as a core asset.
The Marte never got started in AAA. Did not demonstrate competence at the plate other than power.
Shapiro will cut his losses and send Marte packing for a bag of nuts.


603682.2.1. Wrong and Wrong by DrDuckee, 11/11/07 10:30 ET Re: Marte by MrNegative1, 11/11/07
and why am I not shocked that you are wrong yet again?
Marte started at third last year proving your first opinion wrong.
Marte destroyed the ball the last two months of AAA last year showing he is more ready than ever to start in the bigs. The kid has more talent than all but a few hitters we have, just a matter of making that final transition.
Marte will be traded or given another shot here.
Blake should not be starting at third next year if there is a good alternative.

Hope we have a fun off-season and some interesting topics pop up for debate. I invite anyone to present posts from the forum here and remember to keep it nice, keep it fun, and partake in arguing at an adult level....the Tribe Forum can be a lot of fun and can make the off-season seem to fly by.

Peace to All.