Dgen, as usual, has captured the forum flavor real nice with his first edition of the forum whipping boys. This list changes as the year goes on, as it did last year, with the exception of Joe Borowski. Dgen can't wait for the floor to fall from out from under him, and as we all know with relievers, this will happen sooner rather then later, so Joe B stays on the list. It is fun to watch the list grow as the season goes on.....Last years early list included Paul Byrd and he was off it by the All Star Break.
619201. Forum Whipping Boys by DGeneral, 3/16/08 23:06 ET
Early preseason lead has the usual favorites:
Dave Dellucci - this turd is making $4m and is guaranteed a starting job because of it. Dellucci is slow, he's quickly 0-2 every AB, He's a butcher in left field but performance on the field isn't everything as he's just a great clubhouse guy that will likely make the team forget about CC walking out the door. Hope this guy stinks it up so bad Shapiro has to waive him and bring up Francisco.
Andy Marte - Shapiro's ego makes room for this project. Marte is also guaranteed a spot on this roster because he has no other place to go. Marte has had a dismal spring at the plate and his butchery continues in the field. A fresh prospect that can't hit or field, He'll be on the whipping boy list until Shapiro finally cuts bait mid season. The Marte is tracking major bust.
Joe Borowski- The smoke and mirrors are about to run out for this guy that saves with bubble gum and bailing wire. JoBlow is out of rabbits to remove from his hat. Look for this closers ERA to track his save performance. It's going to get ugly.
Monday, March 17, 2008
Sunday, March 9, 2008
Elarton and Spring Training Talk
This post was started by CallMeK (MrNegative1…thanks to responding to a post I got lumped in and banned for the day [damn you w8!]) This discussion went to the heart of how the Tribe operates in Spring Training as far as roster decisions. It starts with Elarton talk and moves into the spring training discussion as we go. I can't wait until around the end of March to see what suprises await in spring training......but as usual, this discussion was chosen to be included in my blog because there is no name calling and arguments are based in fact and opinion both.
618123. Elarton
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 15:51 ET
I'm starting to think Elarton may be the way to go for our #5 to start the year. I'll list my reasons and remember, I'm not 100% behind this or am I saying that it will happen, but I'll put my mangers hat on for a moment.
1. #5 starter will not be required full time in April. Elarton can make a start or two and pitch in long relief if required.
2. Elarton came to camp and is pitching with a purpose...Lee, Sowers, and Laffey should take note. Send them a message.
3. By the time a move with Elarton would have to be made, Miller may be ready. Buffalo competiton will be Miller, Sowers, Laffey, Lee...whichever is ready can come up...
4. Our #5 starter should'nt be settled in Spring Training or should I say, doesn't have to be settled in spring training....
Now, there are many more reasons against Elarton and I won't argue...he's a scrub, if he's our #5 the team is in trouble...etc. Lee's contract status.....
I say, if Elarton pitches effectively, go with him....continue to send the message that the Tribe sent in 07....reward perfromance (Garko, Perez, Lewis, Cabrera, Franky) and bounce those who do not perform (Barfield, Marte, Sowers, Lee, Cabrera, Roberto, Davis, Rouse).
Peace
TheGitz responded below…..brief but don’t want to break the chain as we go.
618123.1. valid points....
by THEtgitz, 3/9/08 15:53 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
... but I am still leaning toward Lee if he is even just average.
Lafayette dropped the following post that actually brought up some good conversation….
618123.2. there are no suprises
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 15:54 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
with this organization there are no suprises. No coming from "out of no where" towin a spot. Nothing like that will happen. Elaton came as a favor and in case there were injuries to Julio and Mastny. E is a reliever. He might start some where...but it won't be for us. That's not the way we work
618123.2.1.1.1. Past
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:05 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
I am not saying that the Tribe had any suprises in the past...Wedge did have his team in place and there was very little competion in camp......but I am thinking that this team offers a different dynamic then other springs. Many set postion players have options and the Tribe also has options.
Jensen Lewis can go down, unlike Davis/Cabrera in years past.
Cabrera can go down...we have Barfield and Carroll up here.
Cliff Lee, Jeremey Sowers, and Aaron Laffey could all go to Buffalo and resume competition in April while Elarton makes a few spot starts.
Mastny could go down, we do have Julio.
First time in a few years the Tribe has depth and players have options to move down.
Should be interesting to see if there are any suprises?
Peace
618123.2.1.1.1.1. more so this year
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:10 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
than any...the Tribe wants to go with the same team that finished last year. That's their choice over the winter and they aren't going to allow a few at bats or innins in Winterhaven to change their decision.
They will wait until the summer heat to make any changes...and they'll be quick about it this year because of the competition and ergency
618123.2.1.1.1.1.1. We shall see
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:12 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Should be fun to see what team breaks camp...
Peace
618123.2.2. Would agree but
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 15:58 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Wedge changed up last season and you can't argue...Trot, Roberto, Davis, Cabrera, Barfield, Marte, Rouse, Lee, and Sowers all shown the bench or a ticket to Buffalo.
I posted often during the year that Wedge was changing and most agreed, just the Duck had a problem with that sentiment.
I think there will be a few suprises this spring.....posted that all winter....most think our team is set in stone, I think there is much more competiton then we believe. I don't feel Cabrera is set in stone at 2b, although many will argue with me...and I'll admit that he probably has the job...
Peace
618123.2.2.1. they were dispatched because of the "surprises" that surfaced in spring training
by phatprez, 3/9/08 16:01 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
without the spring surprises, who he had on the back burner in buffalo and akron, wedgie might have had to live with what he had
618123.2.2.1.1. Nope
by BangerMasher, 3/9/08 16:02 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
these "surprises" happened in Buffalo.
618123.2.2.2. I thought we were talking ST
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:02 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
there will be performance changes this year. Lee won't pitch for ever...neither would Julio. If Dellucci or Fransisco tank, replacements will be made...same of course for Marte and Cabrera.
But the opening roster is not subject to change due to ST performance.
I wish I was wrong...but tell me where
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:09 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
You are not wrong up to today....your argument has no holes, under Wedge the last few years no postion battle has really been won based on Spring Training results.
My argument is one of the future, which means it is only wrong until.....and if Cabrera hits .200 and Barfield hits .400 and Josh goes down, I can see your point.
If Lee is our #5 and Elarton is released or Lee is outpitched by Laffey then I can see your point.
If Ben hits .450 and still isn't on the roster, I see your point.
Should be fun to watch keep track of this...if I were a betting man....I'd hedge my bet toward your argument...but I wouldn't call my argument a long shot.
Peace
618123.2.3.1. I have absolutely no doubt
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:17 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
performance means nothing during the spring. Period. Especially this year. The guys who won the jobs last year, like AC will not lose them. Dellucci and Lee have been given theirs because of past performnce,
What guys do now MAY have an effect on how quick deals or demotions are made once the season starts.
I'd be shocked if Mastney makes the club...thats the only possible suprise, they want that "Hernadez type" to be able to sit at the end of the bench and come in once a week or what ever and won't trust Mastney to do that
618123.3. Is there room on the 40 man roster for Elarton?
by HZHackenbush, 3/9/08 15:56 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Does Elarton/Do the Indians even consider him a starter (I had read that Elarton thought of himself more as a long man)?
618123.3.1. Yes, Lara will be removed
by buckhollow, 3/9/08 16:09 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
at the start of the season. Team will comtinue to pay hospitol bills.
618123. Elarton
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 15:51 ET
I'm starting to think Elarton may be the way to go for our #5 to start the year. I'll list my reasons and remember, I'm not 100% behind this or am I saying that it will happen, but I'll put my mangers hat on for a moment.
1. #5 starter will not be required full time in April. Elarton can make a start or two and pitch in long relief if required.
2. Elarton came to camp and is pitching with a purpose...Lee, Sowers, and Laffey should take note. Send them a message.
3. By the time a move with Elarton would have to be made, Miller may be ready. Buffalo competiton will be Miller, Sowers, Laffey, Lee...whichever is ready can come up...
4. Our #5 starter should'nt be settled in Spring Training or should I say, doesn't have to be settled in spring training....
Now, there are many more reasons against Elarton and I won't argue...he's a scrub, if he's our #5 the team is in trouble...etc. Lee's contract status.....
I say, if Elarton pitches effectively, go with him....continue to send the message that the Tribe sent in 07....reward perfromance (Garko, Perez, Lewis, Cabrera, Franky) and bounce those who do not perform (Barfield, Marte, Sowers, Lee, Cabrera, Roberto, Davis, Rouse).
Peace
TheGitz responded below…..brief but don’t want to break the chain as we go.
618123.1. valid points....
by THEtgitz, 3/9/08 15:53 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
... but I am still leaning toward Lee if he is even just average.
Lafayette dropped the following post that actually brought up some good conversation….
618123.2. there are no suprises
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 15:54 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
with this organization there are no suprises. No coming from "out of no where" towin a spot. Nothing like that will happen. Elaton came as a favor and in case there were injuries to Julio and Mastny. E is a reliever. He might start some where...but it won't be for us. That's not the way we work
618123.2.1.1.1. Past
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:05 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
I am not saying that the Tribe had any suprises in the past...Wedge did have his team in place and there was very little competion in camp......but I am thinking that this team offers a different dynamic then other springs. Many set postion players have options and the Tribe also has options.
Jensen Lewis can go down, unlike Davis/Cabrera in years past.
Cabrera can go down...we have Barfield and Carroll up here.
Cliff Lee, Jeremey Sowers, and Aaron Laffey could all go to Buffalo and resume competition in April while Elarton makes a few spot starts.
Mastny could go down, we do have Julio.
First time in a few years the Tribe has depth and players have options to move down.
Should be interesting to see if there are any suprises?
Peace
618123.2.1.1.1.1. more so this year
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:10 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
than any...the Tribe wants to go with the same team that finished last year. That's their choice over the winter and they aren't going to allow a few at bats or innins in Winterhaven to change their decision.
They will wait until the summer heat to make any changes...and they'll be quick about it this year because of the competition and ergency
618123.2.1.1.1.1.1. We shall see
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:12 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Should be fun to see what team breaks camp...
Peace
618123.2.2. Would agree but
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 15:58 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Wedge changed up last season and you can't argue...Trot, Roberto, Davis, Cabrera, Barfield, Marte, Rouse, Lee, and Sowers all shown the bench or a ticket to Buffalo.
I posted often during the year that Wedge was changing and most agreed, just the Duck had a problem with that sentiment.
I think there will be a few suprises this spring.....posted that all winter....most think our team is set in stone, I think there is much more competiton then we believe. I don't feel Cabrera is set in stone at 2b, although many will argue with me...and I'll admit that he probably has the job...
Peace
618123.2.2.1. they were dispatched because of the "surprises" that surfaced in spring training
by phatprez, 3/9/08 16:01 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
without the spring surprises, who he had on the back burner in buffalo and akron, wedgie might have had to live with what he had
618123.2.2.1.1. Nope
by BangerMasher, 3/9/08 16:02 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
these "surprises" happened in Buffalo.
618123.2.2.2. I thought we were talking ST
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:02 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
there will be performance changes this year. Lee won't pitch for ever...neither would Julio. If Dellucci or Fransisco tank, replacements will be made...same of course for Marte and Cabrera.
But the opening roster is not subject to change due to ST performance.
I wish I was wrong...but tell me where
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:09 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
You are not wrong up to today....your argument has no holes, under Wedge the last few years no postion battle has really been won based on Spring Training results.
My argument is one of the future, which means it is only wrong until.....and if Cabrera hits .200 and Barfield hits .400 and Josh goes down, I can see your point.
If Lee is our #5 and Elarton is released or Lee is outpitched by Laffey then I can see your point.
If Ben hits .450 and still isn't on the roster, I see your point.
Should be fun to watch keep track of this...if I were a betting man....I'd hedge my bet toward your argument...but I wouldn't call my argument a long shot.
Peace
618123.2.3.1. I have absolutely no doubt
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:17 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
performance means nothing during the spring. Period. Especially this year. The guys who won the jobs last year, like AC will not lose them. Dellucci and Lee have been given theirs because of past performnce,
What guys do now MAY have an effect on how quick deals or demotions are made once the season starts.
I'd be shocked if Mastney makes the club...thats the only possible suprise, they want that "Hernadez type" to be able to sit at the end of the bench and come in once a week or what ever and won't trust Mastney to do that
618123.3. Is there room on the 40 man roster for Elarton?
by HZHackenbush, 3/9/08 15:56 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Does Elarton/Do the Indians even consider him a starter (I had read that Elarton thought of himself more as a long man)?
618123.3.1. Yes, Lara will be removed
by buckhollow, 3/9/08 16:09 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
at the start of the season. Team will comtinue to pay hospitol bills.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)