So many Tribe fans are angry, frustrated, and have given up. I am not one to throw in the towel and am willing to weather the storm a little while longer. As I watched the Rays get shut down by Danks and the Chisox, the lead was extended to six games.
I am of the belief that the Tribe has the necessary framework of talent to play much better fundamental baseball. The framework includes individuals who have proven to know how to hit at the big league level in the past.....Sizemore, Peralta, Hafner, Martinez, Blake are all much better then they are showing. Fraklin, Francisco, Choo, Cabrera, and Aubrey all have to find a certain rhthym that included playing fundamental offense.
The bullpen needs to settle down. Raffy B, Raffy L, Masa need to take the reigns and settle things.
Quick Note: It will be exciting to see how the Tribe handles not only Andy Marte over the season, but Adam Miller. Like Papelbon, its time to bring him up here in late August or September and let him pitch one inning at a time. Let's assume in 2008, if he pitches again, it should solely be limited to the pen. AFL can be used to stretch his arm out and see how the finger reacts. Spring training next year, he should be made the closer, if he someday is transitioned into the rotation, great (Wainwright Plan).
Peace
Thursday, May 29, 2008
Wednesday, May 14, 2008
All things being equal
Tribe is 16-9 over the last 25 games. Still, the cockroaches can complain about hitting, individual performances, and lack of a dominant record. If anyone tries to point out optimism or point to other teams with similar problems, the roaches attack the poster with accusations of using other failures to cover up inequities of the Tribe.
I am not 100% certain, but I believe that the Tribe is only 3 games or so away from the best record in the A.L. The Tribe is beating teams with the best Starting Pitching in the league. Tribe is beating teams that historically give them problems...Oakland (except for late last year when Embree was struggling at closer and starters were injured), New York, Boston, and Anaheim.
Now, I can't wait for the Tribe to head to some warmer weather, get away from Jacobs field and get the early batting practice. Should be fun to allow the Tribe a respite from the cold damp weather and fans groans.
Should be fun to see where the Tribe is in the standings in a month or so.
Onto the topic of off-season acquisitions...how good was it to pay attention to the pen and get Kobe and Julio in here. Having Mastny in the minors for a call up rather then havi to go to Mujica and Bauer.
How about not dealing Cliff Lee, Aaron Laffey, or Jeremy Sower?
How about picking up the options on Borowski and Byrd. Borowski has yet to pay dividends, but Joe gives the Tribe an option at Closer, set-up man (like in Tampa), mop-up, or trade bait later on.
How about picking up Fultz and dropping him and picking up Breslow, who could be a decent reliever if he's not overexposed and used in mop up roles....he is not as good as Bettencourt and Perez, not Kobe, Lewis, or Julio, but he's better then Fultz, Mastny, and Mujica.
Now, we've survived the lack of offensive production and have survived not having a "off-season" bat picked up. We now have enough time to get a look at Francisco and Choo over the next 4-6 weeks.
We have a chance to offer Barfield an opportunity at redemption. We have a chance for Laffey to garner major league innings...don't ever overlook the "investment in innings" that a team has to make in a pitcher.
Sowers is returning to his once promising form which is nice to see.
Garko, Hafner, Peralta, Victor, Grady, and Blake need to hit at their 2007 averages to get a true barometer of the offense.
Jumpin around a bit here...but its a 40 game mark post...I guess.
Peace
I am not 100% certain, but I believe that the Tribe is only 3 games or so away from the best record in the A.L. The Tribe is beating teams with the best Starting Pitching in the league. Tribe is beating teams that historically give them problems...Oakland (except for late last year when Embree was struggling at closer and starters were injured), New York, Boston, and Anaheim.
Now, I can't wait for the Tribe to head to some warmer weather, get away from Jacobs field and get the early batting practice. Should be fun to allow the Tribe a respite from the cold damp weather and fans groans.
Should be fun to see where the Tribe is in the standings in a month or so.
Onto the topic of off-season acquisitions...how good was it to pay attention to the pen and get Kobe and Julio in here. Having Mastny in the minors for a call up rather then havi to go to Mujica and Bauer.
How about not dealing Cliff Lee, Aaron Laffey, or Jeremy Sower?
How about picking up the options on Borowski and Byrd. Borowski has yet to pay dividends, but Joe gives the Tribe an option at Closer, set-up man (like in Tampa), mop-up, or trade bait later on.
How about picking up Fultz and dropping him and picking up Breslow, who could be a decent reliever if he's not overexposed and used in mop up roles....he is not as good as Bettencourt and Perez, not Kobe, Lewis, or Julio, but he's better then Fultz, Mastny, and Mujica.
Now, we've survived the lack of offensive production and have survived not having a "off-season" bat picked up. We now have enough time to get a look at Francisco and Choo over the next 4-6 weeks.
We have a chance to offer Barfield an opportunity at redemption. We have a chance for Laffey to garner major league innings...don't ever overlook the "investment in innings" that a team has to make in a pitcher.
Sowers is returning to his once promising form which is nice to see.
Garko, Hafner, Peralta, Victor, Grady, and Blake need to hit at their 2007 averages to get a true barometer of the offense.
Jumpin around a bit here...but its a 40 game mark post...I guess.
Peace
Thursday, May 8, 2008
Improvement
Last year the Tribe did not pull away in the division, nor did they have the electric hot streak to capture the fans enthusiasm. This year, we are seeing the same type of play over the last 19 games. The Tribe record en over the last 19 games is 11-8. This includes a series win over the Yankees, a series split with the Yankees, and a 2-game sweep at the hand of the Royals.
This is pretty much the way it was last season. This year, we have to overcome the poor offense, remember chicks dig the long ball. The Tribe has made one move this year, the dealing of J-Mike to the Pirates and recalling Ben Francisco. Typical of the Tribe, do moves in baby steps for fear of upsetting the apple cargt.
We all seem to be scratching our heads as to why Marte isn't get his shot...but I am sure they are going to give him more time over the next month or so. What is the down side to playing Marte more often? The upside is having the manueverablity to use Blake as a utility outfielder/infielder.
The key to the Tribes offense though is not Blake, Marte, or Asdrubal. Grady has to become the dynamic guy that he once was. He has to get his average back around .300 and start producing extra base hits. Victor has to drive the ball and start showing some power. Garko has to be more consistent, lets hope his annual 0-25 streak is over and he can pickup where he was last year when he began to show more power. We can't overlook the importance of getting Travis Hafner back on track. Some would like to say Hafner has lost it, I am one who believes that he will find it....to look at others that have struggled mightily in recent memory, look to A-Rod post-season 2006 and Giambi start of season 2006.
Well, Toronto is up next for the Tribe, time to put sexy back in baseball and start a long winning streak to capture the fans emotions as the Celtics end the Cavs season and Browns training camp is still a few months off in the distance.
Peace
This is pretty much the way it was last season. This year, we have to overcome the poor offense, remember chicks dig the long ball. The Tribe has made one move this year, the dealing of J-Mike to the Pirates and recalling Ben Francisco. Typical of the Tribe, do moves in baby steps for fear of upsetting the apple cargt.
We all seem to be scratching our heads as to why Marte isn't get his shot...but I am sure they are going to give him more time over the next month or so. What is the down side to playing Marte more often? The upside is having the manueverablity to use Blake as a utility outfielder/infielder.
The key to the Tribes offense though is not Blake, Marte, or Asdrubal. Grady has to become the dynamic guy that he once was. He has to get his average back around .300 and start producing extra base hits. Victor has to drive the ball and start showing some power. Garko has to be more consistent, lets hope his annual 0-25 streak is over and he can pickup where he was last year when he began to show more power. We can't overlook the importance of getting Travis Hafner back on track. Some would like to say Hafner has lost it, I am one who believes that he will find it....to look at others that have struggled mightily in recent memory, look to A-Rod post-season 2006 and Giambi start of season 2006.
Well, Toronto is up next for the Tribe, time to put sexy back in baseball and start a long winning streak to capture the fans emotions as the Celtics end the Cavs season and Browns training camp is still a few months off in the distance.
Peace
Wednesday, May 7, 2008
Two in a row?
Time for the Tribe to get the ship moving in the positive direction offensively. The Tribe was 5-10 at one point, and now is 15-17, which means they've played 10-7 ball over the last 17. Let's hope that the Tribe has managed to go 15-17 during what will be there worst stretch of the season.
It is interesting to look at the Tribes record versus what I call the "momentum busters of 07" These are teams that Tribe had diffulty with in 07:
Los Angeles Angels 5-5
Oakland A's 5-4
New York Yankees0-6
Boston Red Sox 2-4
Thats a record of 12-19 or so I believe. Even without the Yankees in there, the team is 12-13 against the remaining three teams. Not a horrible record but for a team that won 96 games it kind of shows a struggle.
This season Tribe has met the Yankees 5 times thus far, Boston twice, Anaheim 3 times, and Oakland 6 times. Tribe again has struggled against that group.
Hopefully, we are getting our struggles out early.
Peace
It is interesting to look at the Tribes record versus what I call the "momentum busters of 07" These are teams that Tribe had diffulty with in 07:
Los Angeles Angels 5-5
Oakland A's 5-4
New York Yankees0-6
Boston Red Sox 2-4
Thats a record of 12-19 or so I believe. Even without the Yankees in there, the team is 12-13 against the remaining three teams. Not a horrible record but for a team that won 96 games it kind of shows a struggle.
This season Tribe has met the Yankees 5 times thus far, Boston twice, Anaheim 3 times, and Oakland 6 times. Tribe again has struggled against that group.
Hopefully, we are getting our struggles out early.
Peace
Tuesday, May 6, 2008
Today the day?
Well, here we go to New York...the site of last years 3 game sweep, including a heart wrenching loss with two outs in the ninth. Well, this time there is no A-Rod in the lineup and the Yankee dominance of the Tribe may have been temporarily suspended after last years post-season defeat and early season split at Progressive Field.
It will be interesting to see if the Tribe comes out and plays with some passion and energy. Coming off an off day, a new look lineup (Marte better be in), and a wee bit of desperation should be evident.
I am still a little befuddled that the shakeup to the team was only one move. Francisco for J-Mike. I was thinking that we should've put a reliever like Mastny down and brought up Andy Gonzalez or Aaron Herr or Josh Barfield. Give the Tribe added flexibility at the end of the game in terms of speed, defensive manueverablity, etc. If the Tribe has to go to their pen and need a pitcher, we can always go down and recall Sowers (who should be eligible soon) or another roster pitcher.
I would like a team that is struggling offensively to have more hitters available then relievers. Hell, Tribe could bring up Torregas and let him sit, give Victor some time at DH or 1b and give Shoppach some time. Victor may need extended time out from behind home plate to properly heal the hamstring and regain his power.
Peace
It will be interesting to see if the Tribe comes out and plays with some passion and energy. Coming off an off day, a new look lineup (Marte better be in), and a wee bit of desperation should be evident.
I am still a little befuddled that the shakeup to the team was only one move. Francisco for J-Mike. I was thinking that we should've put a reliever like Mastny down and brought up Andy Gonzalez or Aaron Herr or Josh Barfield. Give the Tribe added flexibility at the end of the game in terms of speed, defensive manueverablity, etc. If the Tribe has to go to their pen and need a pitcher, we can always go down and recall Sowers (who should be eligible soon) or another roster pitcher.
I would like a team that is struggling offensively to have more hitters available then relievers. Hell, Tribe could bring up Torregas and let him sit, give Victor some time at DH or 1b and give Shoppach some time. Victor may need extended time out from behind home plate to properly heal the hamstring and regain his power.
Peace
Monday, May 5, 2008
What a day?
Well, the forum has had all the cockroaches from last year who were silenced as the Tribe ran away to 96 wins and the accolades were coming to Wedge and Shapiro. Now, we have the disappointing beginning to the 2008 season and those roaches are having a great time. Its like the lights are off and the roaches are scurrying around having a blast. Someone needs to flip the light switch on and get the roaches scurrying to for cover. Roaches will never go away, just stay in hiding.....the Orkin man would be a World Series Ring.
Peace
Peace
Monday, March 17, 2008
Dgens Initial Whipping Boys
Dgen, as usual, has captured the forum flavor real nice with his first edition of the forum whipping boys. This list changes as the year goes on, as it did last year, with the exception of Joe Borowski. Dgen can't wait for the floor to fall from out from under him, and as we all know with relievers, this will happen sooner rather then later, so Joe B stays on the list. It is fun to watch the list grow as the season goes on.....Last years early list included Paul Byrd and he was off it by the All Star Break.
619201. Forum Whipping Boys by DGeneral, 3/16/08 23:06 ET
Early preseason lead has the usual favorites:
Dave Dellucci - this turd is making $4m and is guaranteed a starting job because of it. Dellucci is slow, he's quickly 0-2 every AB, He's a butcher in left field but performance on the field isn't everything as he's just a great clubhouse guy that will likely make the team forget about CC walking out the door. Hope this guy stinks it up so bad Shapiro has to waive him and bring up Francisco.
Andy Marte - Shapiro's ego makes room for this project. Marte is also guaranteed a spot on this roster because he has no other place to go. Marte has had a dismal spring at the plate and his butchery continues in the field. A fresh prospect that can't hit or field, He'll be on the whipping boy list until Shapiro finally cuts bait mid season. The Marte is tracking major bust.
Joe Borowski- The smoke and mirrors are about to run out for this guy that saves with bubble gum and bailing wire. JoBlow is out of rabbits to remove from his hat. Look for this closers ERA to track his save performance. It's going to get ugly.
619201. Forum Whipping Boys by DGeneral, 3/16/08 23:06 ET
Early preseason lead has the usual favorites:
Dave Dellucci - this turd is making $4m and is guaranteed a starting job because of it. Dellucci is slow, he's quickly 0-2 every AB, He's a butcher in left field but performance on the field isn't everything as he's just a great clubhouse guy that will likely make the team forget about CC walking out the door. Hope this guy stinks it up so bad Shapiro has to waive him and bring up Francisco.
Andy Marte - Shapiro's ego makes room for this project. Marte is also guaranteed a spot on this roster because he has no other place to go. Marte has had a dismal spring at the plate and his butchery continues in the field. A fresh prospect that can't hit or field, He'll be on the whipping boy list until Shapiro finally cuts bait mid season. The Marte is tracking major bust.
Joe Borowski- The smoke and mirrors are about to run out for this guy that saves with bubble gum and bailing wire. JoBlow is out of rabbits to remove from his hat. Look for this closers ERA to track his save performance. It's going to get ugly.
Sunday, March 9, 2008
Elarton and Spring Training Talk
This post was started by CallMeK (MrNegative1…thanks to responding to a post I got lumped in and banned for the day [damn you w8!]) This discussion went to the heart of how the Tribe operates in Spring Training as far as roster decisions. It starts with Elarton talk and moves into the spring training discussion as we go. I can't wait until around the end of March to see what suprises await in spring training......but as usual, this discussion was chosen to be included in my blog because there is no name calling and arguments are based in fact and opinion both.
618123. Elarton
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 15:51 ET
I'm starting to think Elarton may be the way to go for our #5 to start the year. I'll list my reasons and remember, I'm not 100% behind this or am I saying that it will happen, but I'll put my mangers hat on for a moment.
1. #5 starter will not be required full time in April. Elarton can make a start or two and pitch in long relief if required.
2. Elarton came to camp and is pitching with a purpose...Lee, Sowers, and Laffey should take note. Send them a message.
3. By the time a move with Elarton would have to be made, Miller may be ready. Buffalo competiton will be Miller, Sowers, Laffey, Lee...whichever is ready can come up...
4. Our #5 starter should'nt be settled in Spring Training or should I say, doesn't have to be settled in spring training....
Now, there are many more reasons against Elarton and I won't argue...he's a scrub, if he's our #5 the team is in trouble...etc. Lee's contract status.....
I say, if Elarton pitches effectively, go with him....continue to send the message that the Tribe sent in 07....reward perfromance (Garko, Perez, Lewis, Cabrera, Franky) and bounce those who do not perform (Barfield, Marte, Sowers, Lee, Cabrera, Roberto, Davis, Rouse).
Peace
TheGitz responded below…..brief but don’t want to break the chain as we go.
618123.1. valid points....
by THEtgitz, 3/9/08 15:53 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
... but I am still leaning toward Lee if he is even just average.
Lafayette dropped the following post that actually brought up some good conversation….
618123.2. there are no suprises
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 15:54 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
with this organization there are no suprises. No coming from "out of no where" towin a spot. Nothing like that will happen. Elaton came as a favor and in case there were injuries to Julio and Mastny. E is a reliever. He might start some where...but it won't be for us. That's not the way we work
618123.2.1.1.1. Past
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:05 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
I am not saying that the Tribe had any suprises in the past...Wedge did have his team in place and there was very little competion in camp......but I am thinking that this team offers a different dynamic then other springs. Many set postion players have options and the Tribe also has options.
Jensen Lewis can go down, unlike Davis/Cabrera in years past.
Cabrera can go down...we have Barfield and Carroll up here.
Cliff Lee, Jeremey Sowers, and Aaron Laffey could all go to Buffalo and resume competition in April while Elarton makes a few spot starts.
Mastny could go down, we do have Julio.
First time in a few years the Tribe has depth and players have options to move down.
Should be interesting to see if there are any suprises?
Peace
618123.2.1.1.1.1. more so this year
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:10 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
than any...the Tribe wants to go with the same team that finished last year. That's their choice over the winter and they aren't going to allow a few at bats or innins in Winterhaven to change their decision.
They will wait until the summer heat to make any changes...and they'll be quick about it this year because of the competition and ergency
618123.2.1.1.1.1.1. We shall see
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:12 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Should be fun to see what team breaks camp...
Peace
618123.2.2. Would agree but
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 15:58 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Wedge changed up last season and you can't argue...Trot, Roberto, Davis, Cabrera, Barfield, Marte, Rouse, Lee, and Sowers all shown the bench or a ticket to Buffalo.
I posted often during the year that Wedge was changing and most agreed, just the Duck had a problem with that sentiment.
I think there will be a few suprises this spring.....posted that all winter....most think our team is set in stone, I think there is much more competiton then we believe. I don't feel Cabrera is set in stone at 2b, although many will argue with me...and I'll admit that he probably has the job...
Peace
618123.2.2.1. they were dispatched because of the "surprises" that surfaced in spring training
by phatprez, 3/9/08 16:01 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
without the spring surprises, who he had on the back burner in buffalo and akron, wedgie might have had to live with what he had
618123.2.2.1.1. Nope
by BangerMasher, 3/9/08 16:02 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
these "surprises" happened in Buffalo.
618123.2.2.2. I thought we were talking ST
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:02 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
there will be performance changes this year. Lee won't pitch for ever...neither would Julio. If Dellucci or Fransisco tank, replacements will be made...same of course for Marte and Cabrera.
But the opening roster is not subject to change due to ST performance.
I wish I was wrong...but tell me where
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:09 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
You are not wrong up to today....your argument has no holes, under Wedge the last few years no postion battle has really been won based on Spring Training results.
My argument is one of the future, which means it is only wrong until.....and if Cabrera hits .200 and Barfield hits .400 and Josh goes down, I can see your point.
If Lee is our #5 and Elarton is released or Lee is outpitched by Laffey then I can see your point.
If Ben hits .450 and still isn't on the roster, I see your point.
Should be fun to watch keep track of this...if I were a betting man....I'd hedge my bet toward your argument...but I wouldn't call my argument a long shot.
Peace
618123.2.3.1. I have absolutely no doubt
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:17 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
performance means nothing during the spring. Period. Especially this year. The guys who won the jobs last year, like AC will not lose them. Dellucci and Lee have been given theirs because of past performnce,
What guys do now MAY have an effect on how quick deals or demotions are made once the season starts.
I'd be shocked if Mastney makes the club...thats the only possible suprise, they want that "Hernadez type" to be able to sit at the end of the bench and come in once a week or what ever and won't trust Mastney to do that
618123.3. Is there room on the 40 man roster for Elarton?
by HZHackenbush, 3/9/08 15:56 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Does Elarton/Do the Indians even consider him a starter (I had read that Elarton thought of himself more as a long man)?
618123.3.1. Yes, Lara will be removed
by buckhollow, 3/9/08 16:09 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
at the start of the season. Team will comtinue to pay hospitol bills.
618123. Elarton
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 15:51 ET
I'm starting to think Elarton may be the way to go for our #5 to start the year. I'll list my reasons and remember, I'm not 100% behind this or am I saying that it will happen, but I'll put my mangers hat on for a moment.
1. #5 starter will not be required full time in April. Elarton can make a start or two and pitch in long relief if required.
2. Elarton came to camp and is pitching with a purpose...Lee, Sowers, and Laffey should take note. Send them a message.
3. By the time a move with Elarton would have to be made, Miller may be ready. Buffalo competiton will be Miller, Sowers, Laffey, Lee...whichever is ready can come up...
4. Our #5 starter should'nt be settled in Spring Training or should I say, doesn't have to be settled in spring training....
Now, there are many more reasons against Elarton and I won't argue...he's a scrub, if he's our #5 the team is in trouble...etc. Lee's contract status.....
I say, if Elarton pitches effectively, go with him....continue to send the message that the Tribe sent in 07....reward perfromance (Garko, Perez, Lewis, Cabrera, Franky) and bounce those who do not perform (Barfield, Marte, Sowers, Lee, Cabrera, Roberto, Davis, Rouse).
Peace
TheGitz responded below…..brief but don’t want to break the chain as we go.
618123.1. valid points....
by THEtgitz, 3/9/08 15:53 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
... but I am still leaning toward Lee if he is even just average.
Lafayette dropped the following post that actually brought up some good conversation….
618123.2. there are no suprises
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 15:54 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
with this organization there are no suprises. No coming from "out of no where" towin a spot. Nothing like that will happen. Elaton came as a favor and in case there were injuries to Julio and Mastny. E is a reliever. He might start some where...but it won't be for us. That's not the way we work
618123.2.1.1.1. Past
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:05 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
I am not saying that the Tribe had any suprises in the past...Wedge did have his team in place and there was very little competion in camp......but I am thinking that this team offers a different dynamic then other springs. Many set postion players have options and the Tribe also has options.
Jensen Lewis can go down, unlike Davis/Cabrera in years past.
Cabrera can go down...we have Barfield and Carroll up here.
Cliff Lee, Jeremey Sowers, and Aaron Laffey could all go to Buffalo and resume competition in April while Elarton makes a few spot starts.
Mastny could go down, we do have Julio.
First time in a few years the Tribe has depth and players have options to move down.
Should be interesting to see if there are any suprises?
Peace
618123.2.1.1.1.1. more so this year
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:10 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
than any...the Tribe wants to go with the same team that finished last year. That's their choice over the winter and they aren't going to allow a few at bats or innins in Winterhaven to change their decision.
They will wait until the summer heat to make any changes...and they'll be quick about it this year because of the competition and ergency
618123.2.1.1.1.1.1. We shall see
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:12 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Should be fun to see what team breaks camp...
Peace
618123.2.2. Would agree but
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 15:58 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Wedge changed up last season and you can't argue...Trot, Roberto, Davis, Cabrera, Barfield, Marte, Rouse, Lee, and Sowers all shown the bench or a ticket to Buffalo.
I posted often during the year that Wedge was changing and most agreed, just the Duck had a problem with that sentiment.
I think there will be a few suprises this spring.....posted that all winter....most think our team is set in stone, I think there is much more competiton then we believe. I don't feel Cabrera is set in stone at 2b, although many will argue with me...and I'll admit that he probably has the job...
Peace
618123.2.2.1. they were dispatched because of the "surprises" that surfaced in spring training
by phatprez, 3/9/08 16:01 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
without the spring surprises, who he had on the back burner in buffalo and akron, wedgie might have had to live with what he had
618123.2.2.1.1. Nope
by BangerMasher, 3/9/08 16:02 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
these "surprises" happened in Buffalo.
618123.2.2.2. I thought we were talking ST
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:02 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
there will be performance changes this year. Lee won't pitch for ever...neither would Julio. If Dellucci or Fransisco tank, replacements will be made...same of course for Marte and Cabrera.
But the opening roster is not subject to change due to ST performance.
I wish I was wrong...but tell me where
by CallMeK, 3/9/08 16:09 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
You are not wrong up to today....your argument has no holes, under Wedge the last few years no postion battle has really been won based on Spring Training results.
My argument is one of the future, which means it is only wrong until.....and if Cabrera hits .200 and Barfield hits .400 and Josh goes down, I can see your point.
If Lee is our #5 and Elarton is released or Lee is outpitched by Laffey then I can see your point.
If Ben hits .450 and still isn't on the roster, I see your point.
Should be fun to watch keep track of this...if I were a betting man....I'd hedge my bet toward your argument...but I wouldn't call my argument a long shot.
Peace
618123.2.3.1. I have absolutely no doubt
by Lafayette, 3/9/08 16:17 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
performance means nothing during the spring. Period. Especially this year. The guys who won the jobs last year, like AC will not lose them. Dellucci and Lee have been given theirs because of past performnce,
What guys do now MAY have an effect on how quick deals or demotions are made once the season starts.
I'd be shocked if Mastney makes the club...thats the only possible suprise, they want that "Hernadez type" to be able to sit at the end of the bench and come in once a week or what ever and won't trust Mastney to do that
618123.3. Is there room on the 40 man roster for Elarton?
by HZHackenbush, 3/9/08 15:56 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
Does Elarton/Do the Indians even consider him a starter (I had read that Elarton thought of himself more as a long man)?
618123.3.1. Yes, Lara will be removed
by buckhollow, 3/9/08 16:09 ET Re: Elarton by CallMeK, 3/9/08
at the start of the season. Team will comtinue to pay hospitol bills.
Friday, February 8, 2008
Off-Season Evaluation
The following discussion took place on 2/7/08. The discussion was how to evaluate the Tribes off-season moves...which can only be described as boring, bland, or uneventful. My question was pretty simple....can we evaluate the success of the off-season until 2008 unfolds? Weird thing happened, people with differing views actually carried on a conversation with intelligent statements.
Go to the » Indians forum
614696.3. Off-Season? by MrNegative1, 2/7/08 9:17 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
Hey Dgen, long time no talk....saw your comment about dud of an off-season and wondered if we can draw a parable to "off-season" moves to that of the NFL Draft or College Football Recruiting Class....
Can you really know what moves were made are going to pay off until the season plays out? When the Twins got Rondell White, Fernando Tatis, and Denny Reyes as their offseason in 05 and then won the division in 06. From the off-season standpoint, the pickups were atrocious, but the team prospered anyway? The Mets made a lot of noise the last couple of off-seasons....but haven't parlayed that into success yet. The White Sox and Tigers both the last couple of years made strong off-season moves only to find themselves watching the post season from home.
Don't you think we could now begin to look at talent on the field and stop looking for the big move? Let the year play out before we criticize the front office for moves they didn't make?
Peace Brother Dgen
Dgen was the first to respond:
614696.3.1. The big miss by DGeneral, 2/7/08 9:25 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
this offseason was failing to extend CC.
Since that didn't happen the second big miss was failing to land a front of the rotation replacement like Haren, Bedard. Shapiro is prospect and journeyman rich to pull off a deal for pitching talent. Better now than later next off season.
Since no CC signing or No front of the rotation arm, the third big miss was failure to acquire an impact position player to boost this offense.
All in all a big disappointment this offseason. Can't just sit on your hands and expect to repeat what you did last year. You know that.
HZHackenbush responded and started a debate with Dgen:
614696.3.1.1. CC wasn't going to even consider anything until Santana was signed by HZHackenbush, 2/7/08 9:34 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
he would have been foolish to do anything else - so blaming that on the FO is nearsighted, at best.
Haren would have been an interesting pick up, and apparently the Indians were in the running - but Arizona had too many major league ready prospects (& I wish Shapiro had traded CC to Arizona for some of that package).
614696.3.1.1.1. Shapiro's job is to by DGeneral, 2/7/08 9:39 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
address the void left in the rotation by a Cy Young champion walking away. To date, he hasn't done that and it will get harder to do it the longer Shapiro waits.
Crossing your fingers and hoping Miller is inflammation free in his elbow is what I would call foolish.
Shapiro needs to make a deal.
614696.3.1.1.1.1. and its not that he didn't try by HZHackenbush, 2/7/08 9:45 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
the Indians just don't have enough of the ammunition to make those kind of deals. They weren't going to match the talent Arizona gave up unless if the Indians wanted to make a hole in the starting lineup, and they certainly have nothing in the minors to match what Seattle gave up for Bedard.
Yes, you are right, but you aren't looking close enough.
614696.3.1.1.1.1.1.1. Nope, you're advocating giving up quality to get... by ANONYMOUS 2/7/08 9:58 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
prospects and suspects. Trading away the reigning Cy Young holder, after coming within one game of going to the WS is a non-supportable proposition. The fans would abandon the team in droves...the clubhouse would be disrupted (believe it or not, CC is both popular and a presence within the clubhouse and amongst the pitching staff) and it is laughable to think that replacing his 19 wins would be an automatic outcome.
614696.3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1. Trading away CC if it would have netted a return by HZHackenbush, 2/7/08 10:12 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
that could have helped the team in 08 and 09, would have been the right thing to do even though it would have set the team back in 08.
The problem is the Twins new GM got greedy and settled for less from the Mets then the Yankees and Red Sox were offering.
Combine that with other teams that one might think would be interested in CC either making other deals or just not wanting to add a FOR pitcher, and even though people here want to talk about trading him the truth is there is no trade to be made for CC that would do more for the team then keeping him this season and risking watching him walk at the end of the year.
Besides w/ 14 days until pitchers and catchers report - no way would Shapiro shake the team up that much.
Go to the » Indians forum
614696.3. Off-Season? by MrNegative1, 2/7/08 9:17 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
Hey Dgen, long time no talk....saw your comment about dud of an off-season and wondered if we can draw a parable to "off-season" moves to that of the NFL Draft or College Football Recruiting Class....
Can you really know what moves were made are going to pay off until the season plays out? When the Twins got Rondell White, Fernando Tatis, and Denny Reyes as their offseason in 05 and then won the division in 06. From the off-season standpoint, the pickups were atrocious, but the team prospered anyway? The Mets made a lot of noise the last couple of off-seasons....but haven't parlayed that into success yet. The White Sox and Tigers both the last couple of years made strong off-season moves only to find themselves watching the post season from home.
Don't you think we could now begin to look at talent on the field and stop looking for the big move? Let the year play out before we criticize the front office for moves they didn't make?
Peace Brother Dgen
Dgen was the first to respond:
614696.3.1. The big miss by DGeneral, 2/7/08 9:25 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
this offseason was failing to extend CC.
Since that didn't happen the second big miss was failing to land a front of the rotation replacement like Haren, Bedard. Shapiro is prospect and journeyman rich to pull off a deal for pitching talent. Better now than later next off season.
Since no CC signing or No front of the rotation arm, the third big miss was failure to acquire an impact position player to boost this offense.
All in all a big disappointment this offseason. Can't just sit on your hands and expect to repeat what you did last year. You know that.
HZHackenbush responded and started a debate with Dgen:
614696.3.1.1. CC wasn't going to even consider anything until Santana was signed by HZHackenbush, 2/7/08 9:34 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
he would have been foolish to do anything else - so blaming that on the FO is nearsighted, at best.
Haren would have been an interesting pick up, and apparently the Indians were in the running - but Arizona had too many major league ready prospects (& I wish Shapiro had traded CC to Arizona for some of that package).
614696.3.1.1.1. Shapiro's job is to by DGeneral, 2/7/08 9:39 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
address the void left in the rotation by a Cy Young champion walking away. To date, he hasn't done that and it will get harder to do it the longer Shapiro waits.
Crossing your fingers and hoping Miller is inflammation free in his elbow is what I would call foolish.
Shapiro needs to make a deal.
614696.3.1.1.1.1. and its not that he didn't try by HZHackenbush, 2/7/08 9:45 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
the Indians just don't have enough of the ammunition to make those kind of deals. They weren't going to match the talent Arizona gave up unless if the Indians wanted to make a hole in the starting lineup, and they certainly have nothing in the minors to match what Seattle gave up for Bedard.
Yes, you are right, but you aren't looking close enough.
614696.3.1.1.1.1.1. Shapiro was in his by DGeneral, 2/7/08 9:50 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
best position to make a deal this winter. Desperation sets in when CC is gone next winter. Shapiro has the pitching to deal, he needed to pull the trigger this winter. You always have to give up quality to get quality.
614696.3.1.1.1.1.1.1. Nope, you're advocating giving up quality to get... by ANONYMOUS 2/7/08 9:58 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
prospects and suspects. Trading away the reigning Cy Young holder, after coming within one game of going to the WS is a non-supportable proposition. The fans would abandon the team in droves...the clubhouse would be disrupted (believe it or not, CC is both popular and a presence within the clubhouse and amongst the pitching staff) and it is laughable to think that replacing his 19 wins would be an automatic outcome.
614696.3.1.1.1.1.1.1.1. Trading away CC if it would have netted a return by HZHackenbush, 2/7/08 10:12 ET Re: Dellucci still the starting by DGeneral, 2/7/08
that could have helped the team in 08 and 09, would have been the right thing to do even though it would have set the team back in 08.
The problem is the Twins new GM got greedy and settled for less from the Mets then the Yankees and Red Sox were offering.
Combine that with other teams that one might think would be interested in CC either making other deals or just not wanting to add a FOR pitcher, and even though people here want to talk about trading him the truth is there is no trade to be made for CC that would do more for the team then keeping him this season and risking watching him walk at the end of the year.
Besides w/ 14 days until pitchers and catchers report - no way would Shapiro shake the team up that much.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)